Chime in please: Kyle Busch/Elliott Sadler

For those of you who watched the truck race last night, or will go to NASCAR.com and check out the video, please let me have your comments on the incident with Kyle Busch last night in the Truck Race at Bristol. My Facebook page, which has several Kyle Busch fans, or should I say HAD Kyle Busch fans, had several comments this morning. At least two long time fans of his are now disgusted with his behavior and attitude and are blasting him there on Facebook. One young man in New York got down right vulgar in his comments.

Just want to know what your folks think. Watch the interview with Kyle on NASCAR.com and note the eyes. What does that tell you?

I await the comments of my esteemed associates here on Racers Reunion. Who knows, next week’s Legendtorial may come from your comments.

I think Kyle has a bug in his eye from driving that sports car Hendrick loaned him.

Richard Childress may try to recruit Elliott for that self defense class he operates and teach him that special headlock!

Elliott Sadler was in the right. Sadler showed alot of class in his interview. Kyle Busch being swormed on his long walk to his hauler like a crybaby was another classic Kyle Busch. Then for Kyleto take a shot at Kevin Harvick’s racing organization in the interview even though Sadler was not racing for Harvick that night was laughable. He could not get anything right at all. He thought Sadler was trying to dump him. Then Kyle retaliated back and in the end it hurt both of them. Again, as I have said it before and I will say it again, why in the world is Kyle willing to waste his time and equipmentin the Nationwide Series and Truck Series? He could be a Championship contender in the Cup Series if he stopped doing stupid things like this. Just a classless punk. I guess Childress beating him up and losing his licenseis not enough for him to wise up.

Elliott like usual was a class act. On the other hand like normal Kyle was crying when he didn’t get his way.

One wag wrote in the Charlotte paper this morning that Kyle’s attorney stated that a motor vehicle in Kyle Busch’s hands was like a scapel in the hands of a surgeon. The wag went on to say that he didn’t want to be driving when Kyle was “operating!”

How come nothing from this will effect the double-secret probation that he was already on? Controversy does breed interest, albeit good or bad. Perhaps hoping to ramp up sagging television ratings? Conspiracy theory!…conspriracy theory! …. just could not resist that one! Still ya gotta remember how NASCAR works.

I agree with you PK, honestly. But you do have to remember how NASCAR works. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I agree, it’s Bristol. It’s the words that I have more of a problem with than the actions. You know in your right mind what is happening and what is going to transpire. It’s just the problem of inequity that I have always had the problem with. NASCAR has long been out of the racing business and into the entertainment business. Status quo and all that, boys with toys will always be just that. It’s the image that is shaken, not what goes on, on the track, that is just racing.

I am with you Robbie, what truck race? Kyle who? Did what?

My Chime in time. My Facebook page, with a couple hundred race fan members from all over the country and Canada, has been filled, and I mean FILLED with comments about the Busch-Sadler incident. Last night on FB chat, I chatted with about a dozen of said fans. Most all of these guys and ladies are in their teens to mid-thirties, the demograhics in which NASCAR expresses such great interest. To a person, 100%, they all express total disgust toward Kyle Busch. Two of said parties were Busch fans before the incident but one young lady called him names the “Rules of Engagement” will not allow me to put in this post. One young man from New York used a sailor’s vocabularly to express his opinion of Busch.

One discussion led to the point that a few years ago, Kevin Harvick had an incident in the truck race on Martinsville weekend of the Cup race and was parked for the Cup race. The young man asked if I thought that would happen with Busch. My answer was that NASCAR is not likely to park the child with the Billion Dollar candy sponsorship who currently happens to be leading the points and whose car brand has been chosen to pace the 2012 Daytona 500.

Under the “Rules of Engagement” I cannot present my opinion here. I will, however, point out that my Facebook page contains no less than 9 You Tube clips of Busch over the past three years that should tell anyone with a reasonable mind, that there are issues inside that young man. I intend to check with Jeff before Tuesday to see if the “Terms of Engagement” apply to Legendtorials. If not, you may want to keep the children away from the radio Tuesday.

Can my dog listen??!!

Dave, your dog may listen, but Jeff has to clear it first. I assure you, without Rules of Engagement in effect for the Legendtorial, no one may want to listen.

I’ll remind Jeff that we are in the “Dog Days of August.”

Thanks Dave. I hope I have your support!!!

Count on it.

Ladies and Gentlemen! I would request, most respectfully, than any discussions back and forth remain as between friends as we are all here for the same reason. As any who knows me will attest, I am extremely opinionated and although I strive hard to be objective, there are certain issues upon which that objectiveity is subject to my personal interpretation. Such is the case with my issues with Kyle Busch. I did, last night and this morning, watch numerous You Tube clips of race incidents and interviews with Kyle Busch since his entrance into NASCAR racing. I have not expressed my opinion in this forum due to the rules of engagement as posted by Jeff. IF Jeff allows me to expound on Tuesday night’s show, I will do so. If Jeff says that the rules of engagement apply to Legendtorials then you will have to use my personal e-mail to get my opinion. Each of you who have stated you “have the right to your opinion” and to express that opinion are fully correct. Having said that, we each have the obligation to respect our fellow members here at Racers Reunion and THEIR opinions whether or not it agrees with yours. I have, since posting this Forum,, received three personal e-mails. If any of you wish to hit me personally, my e-mail is: [email removed]. I will, however, probably not come back to the computer until sometime Sunday. I seriously considered removing this Forum Post after one specific e-mail I received, but I have decided to leave that determination to Jeff.

Believe me, folks, I respect each and every one of you and your opinions, whether or not you agree with me. I am NOT Rush Limbaugh.

Tim

Most of you must be Democrats !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

Harlow Reynolds

Lynchburg,Va.

Opinions are like…………. oh, well.

Yep… and my wife doesn’t often agree with mine!

I am a staunch conservative & my next door neighbor is Attila. Keeps me awake all hours with them dang toga parties.

All of this just goes to show that NASCAR was right on track in that it stirs controversy, and everyone has an opinion. But the only opinion that counts is NASCAR’s. We are all arguing about it and NASCAR is sitting back and looking at all of the interest generated. Remember too that it is only a problem if you acknowledge it. Things like this spark interest on internet sites and among fans, and those who will check in to see what happened next.In my humble opinion, the bump that started it all was a mis-communication among driver and spotter and the rest was an intentional retalitory shot. This sort of thing happens every week at Bowman Gray Stadium and the fans eat it up.Now we all have more important things to worry about than how two race car drivers act in the heat of battle.

I feel the need to respond to this one!

The biggest issue that I have with those that want to comment here is the perspective from which they draw conclusions.

As in most all of sports, those with the ability and the brains actually play, participate and perform. Those with only the intellect tend to be coaches/ car owners, etc!. Those without either the intellect or the ability tend to write about it!

Dale Earnhardt drove for me and then I watched him race for another great number of years as he fought his way thru issues like this, he too was accosted by the fans and some of the media in a negative manner, None of whom have spent even an hour on the phone looking for sponsors, no late nights in the shop working on their car and borrowed grocery money spent on tires. All of this was in an effort to arrive at their dream.

I know there are folks on this site that know EXACTLY what I am talking about and none of them have posted in a negative manner regarding a drivers revelation of their emotions.

There is no way of explaining the intensity that a skilled driver must guide and steer throughout his career. Drivers spend a giant amount of time and effort behind the scenes trying to promote their careers, by attracting sponsors and keeping them happy. You never know what contract might be on the line that night as he is racing. A 2-4 year contract might be under negotiation at the time, etc.

In the old days drivers were racing for grocery money, and todays drivers are certainly driving their asses off in response to a sponsor commitment, job security or employment interviews that will affect their families future.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the comments that I am reading are written by folks that I feel are writing from their computer where there is little sweat involved, no time invested in your livelihood, no planning for a life ending incident, or future family support considerations. The comments written are not the result of years of work, effort and desire, determination and certainly not from any pursuit of a dream, but merely the afterthought from a split second observation that occurred several hours ago and are presented probably with a cool drink in one hand as you type with the other. You get to do your talking from the quiet, concealed confines of your home in an anonymous manner.

Compare that to a driver that has spent those long hours and efforts and years of preparation to get where he is, trying to present his talents to the entire world in public, on national television. In the midst of wrestling a very heavy race car, in 140 degree heat, trying to impress his sponsors, provide for his familys future and intently concentrating on his livelihood, an incident occurs extremely fast and he has no ability to review it on instant replay, and all of a sudden some jerk, knowing of that situation still feels it necessary to intrude on a drivers cool off period and asked a question that is intended to provide controversy. He is offered no cool-down time or access to instant replay, and his gut reaction is judged by those at home on the couch in front of a television.

I am not a personal friend or fan of Kyle Bush, but you cannot take away from him that he is winning races at a faster pace that Dale did, and that he is doing it all types of tracks and in different race cars/trucks. That alone creates jealousy in drivers and fans alike.

At any, rate, that is my perspective. You all are entitled to yours as well!

Patty:

I appreciate your response. I am not much of a writer, but the biggest reason that I do not post is that It is a little uncomfortable for me to respond to some of the posts that are clearly posted by folks that have NO idea about what is actually entailed in racing.

The single biggest concern in making a car handle is the ability of a driver to determine what his preference is for a front roll couple distribution number. FRCD is the cars ability to prevent body roll at the front axle as a percentage of the cars total ability to resist body roll. Because of the unequal length front control arms the front roll center height is very difficult to control and a large amount of front anti-roll devices are encountered at the front axle. I found that a preponderance of the drivers that I worked with would end up liking a FRCD number between 79% to 84%. This issue becomes a real challenge because a change of as little as .5% can greatly affect the cars ability to control body roll rate while maintaining the drivers preference for a decent ride rate. A soft ride rate provides the cars ability to maintain a suitable tire contact patch thru a wider range of camber change. This constantly changes during a race due to track temperatures, tire pressure and position on the race track, etc.

I bring all this up because it is my opinion that what is contributing to Kyles success is his absolutely innate ability to knowingly determine what he wants for a FRCD and then is able to communicate it correctly to each of the crew chiefs of his many different rides, not only throughout the season and from track to track, but during the unfolding of each race itself. Whatever anyone happens to think about Kyle is certainly their option, but it would only seem appropriate to understand what he has to go thru and what his abilities and skills are before they offer up an opinion that is clearly based on a minute amount of racing knowledge.

Im done for awhile!

Great post, PK. I did not see the truck race at Bristol but did see the replay of the Busch/Sadler incident. I do agree that this is Bristol and has a history of creating actions and incidents not seen on any other track – tempers flare up there just as many of us have seen on all the dirt tracks we used to watch. Having said that, Kyle Busch is one of the very best talents in NASCAR racing today, is 26 years old, and has, in the past, exhibited some immaturity. He has, and will continue to,improve with age. Elliot Sadler isolder, a gooddriver, and, in my opinion, one of the true gentlemen of the sport. I don’t know for sure, but Kyle may have had a different opinion of the incident after seeing the replay. At any rate, as stated before, it was Bristol and that track is notorious for creating controversial situations. Time to move on.

I offer another perspective to the insight that might result in the comment that Sadler did ‘Nothing’ to be in this position.

If you have watched closely from inside the track corners from up close, it will soon be apparent that the drivers positioning of the steering wheel is not always directly related to the direction that the car is traveling in. If you are running at a high speed paved track like Bristol the elevated corner speeds can propel the car in a different direction that that of the steering wheel is intending for it to go. Depending on a LOT of other circumstances the car/truck can find that the adhesion of the rear wheels is slightly behind that of the front wheels and the car/truck encounters the ‘loose’ condition. A TALENTED driver can overcome that issue in a manner that does not present itself to the casual observer, but is is absolutely apparent the the driver right behind him.

If Mr. Sadler had been paying attention, and I am sure he was, he would notice that, and in an effort to maybe get ahead of that driver might take it upon himself to attempt to pass on the outside coming off the turn ( a questionable choice in my opinion) and to do so at an opportune time that might make a less observant or less confident driver decide to let off the gas and ALLOW that driver to complete the pass on the outside.

Mr. Busch may have taken exception to that and recognizing that no one in the rear is given the ‘right of way’ over some one that is ahead (remember, this is the sport called ‘racing’) and decided to keep his foot in the gas, his car under control, and maintain a smooth and controlled trajectory off the corner.

When Mr. Sadler decided to try and ‘scare’ Mr. Busch into getting off the throttle, he made a miscalculation as to Mr. Busch’s determination and got EXACTLY what occurred. There should have never been any need for Kyle or his spotter to adjust for a person in the REAR trying to make a pass in a questionable at best situation.

I would be very surprised if at least one of Elliot’s crew members didn’t asked ‘what were you thinking, trying to pass on the outside coming off a corner?????”.

Just a different perspective! (apparently the backhoe wouldn’t start.)

It is one thing to accidentally turn someone while racing. It is another to deliberatly wait until that person comes back around and then wreck him and that is what Kyle Busch did. I know what I saw and that’s what I saw. Replay, after replay, after replay and it never changed. Still the “Little Cry Baby” wrecked Elliott Sadler on purpose. Some people need to get another TV because their’s is playing in another time zone. We saw what we saw and that’s what we see’d.

The oft-repeated 1963 Joe Weatherly quote to Chris Economaki on the ABC telecast after crashing at Darlington:

“I got a little behind in my steering!”

“Fireball” Roberts once said “Understeer is hitting the wall with the front of your car. Oversteer is hitting it with the rear.”

While I agree with most of this, there is one element that is missing. Even if Sadler made a miscalculation and underestimated Busch’s determination, no one…including Busch is going to take the chance to be wrecked by moving into that position too late…or too early whichever is the case. He said the spotter cleared him and he was late making the move. I’m not sure he was ever clear from what I could determine from the video clip….I didn’t see the race. So, the spotter may have some responsibility here.

Things happen quickly at Bristol and all short tracks…no time to think about it or second guess the spotter.

I have never questionedKyle’sability to wheel the car,it’s the personality and just plain being a smart aleck (best I could do under the rules of ingagement)and not very humble that I don’t like. I second the motion PK, I sure do miss guys like Neil. Klye brings all this on himself most of the time, he knows that microphone is about as hot as a branding iron when they throw it in his face and he gives some smart aleck remark. It just get’s the media going and they are looking for the story.! He sure wasn’t raised in the south.

Not sure who ”coined” the phrase but Charlie Sheen lives it.

Lol! I’m not sure its working for Charlie right now.

Interesting post – as they say, there are potentially two sides to every story.

The interesting post I was referring to was Will Cronkrite’s.

Those characteristics and his on track performance that you describe are what every car owner is looking for in a driver, and it makes every crew member that has ever touched his car/truck proud that their driver takes his job seriously enough to put that much effort into competing.

Recorded wins and finishing positions determine paydays and awards, not platitudes and political correctness.

The greatest attribute, in my opinion , for any person is honesty, and that is EXACTLY what you get from Kyle. No PC and BS.

This thread has gotten me very close to becoming a Kyle Bush fan. Dale was viewed in this manner and it’s my opinion that he turned out OK. If one were to take the time to notice what both Dale and Kyle did/do off the track, it will be readily apparent that neither of these gentleman are lacking in social skills and compassion, it’s just that they seem to be judged solely on an instant response under the heat of battle that few if any of the critics have even been exposed to, let along experienced.

It’s like someone giving an opinion on the quality of a new house based solely on their opinion of the color of the paint rather than taking the time to study the architecture, the materials, and the assembly process. It is a superficial approach at best!

I apologize for these repeated posts, but it gets very frustrating for me to view comments from those that contribute NOTHING to racing about those that contribute EVERYTHING!

Will, I’d beg to disagree heartily with your opinionon Dale Earnhardt’sset of social skills early on in his Cup career. He drove for you and I worked directly with him from late 1980 until early 1984. When we began with him at Wrangler I found him to be an extremely shy guy around others he didn’t know out of the car who was extremely reluctant to do media interviews or interact. Same for meeting Wrangler customers and going to company functions… things that are expected at that level. The late Joe Whitlock had to cajole and I had to explain the meaning of his “Personal Services” contract numerous times. During a rainstorm at Wilkesboro once when we were holed up in the Wrangler van hetold a Winston-Salem tv crew who wanted an interview he didn’t have time to “mess with” them. That was the breaking point for me and I got that straightened out pretty quickly. In those days the first word out of Dale’s mouth when you asked him to do something was always, “WHY?” My answer was always, “Because we are paying you to do it.” A few years later working with Kyle Petty, I always got the opposite reaction. Kyle Petty had been well schooled by his father on the importance of “meet & greet” and cooperating with the media, an education Dale did not get from Ralph Earnhardt. Kyle Petty always asked if that was all you needed or if he could do anything more. It was pretty refreshing after “fighting” Dale for nearly 4 years. Iwatched Dale become very outgoing in later years and he was especially great when I worked at the Richmond track and had him meet privately with “Make A Wish” children. However, in those early days Dale Earnhardt’ssocial skills set was definitely not in the same league with those of Kyle Busch as you assert (or Kyle Petty)at the same point of his career. Early one Sunday morning in 1989 I was walking on the infield road at Atlanta near the tunnel entrance and track cafeteria when a van blew its horn as I walked by and nearly scared me to death. When the darkened driver window rolled down, it was Earnhardt behind the wheel with Teresa beside him. Dale asked me to get in the van. He asked forgiveness for his behavior in those early years and thanked me for everything I had done to help him.He said he wanted to say that to me in front of Teresa. Anyhow, that’s my take andmy opinion and I certainly respect yours, even though we differ.

Wally, Joe Whitlock took me there the firsat time I went to Daytona. Agree.

Will,

The reasons you have stated are the very reasons that not only do I not give personal opinions of drivers (or others), I do not form them either unless I have personal dealings (know) that individual.

My viewaboutthe drivers competitive nature are EXACTLY as you described…Give me one that will bring back nothing but the steering wheel if that is what it takes to get it done, no excuses, no apologies.

The statement of honesty being anyone’s greatest attribute and that is exactly what you get from Kyle. NoP.C. or B.S.IS EXACTLY right. Let me add that I think that P.C. IS B.S.! Always was always will be in my book…Too many drivers (others) take that approach as a way out in uncomfortable situations. Kyle does not.

I do not really favor one over the other since I do not know any of those competing today on a personal level. I will say that if I were a owner and was lookin a driver it would not be Dale Jr. Jimmy j. or Jeffie Gordon…IT WOULD BE SHRUB! Not from a fan stand point but from a very astute business decision stand point…He proves it time and again…

Viewing this the entire content of this thread has left me with one thing to say,

Glad you are here and I do appreciate you going in depth in your replies.. A very valid viewpoints that I was beginning to think that only I had… Again, love the no P.C.or B.S. line in your Kyle description…We need WAY LESSP.C. my friend, you nailed it!

William, I don’t think any driver I grew up cheering, like a Ray Hendrick, would get a ride today. None of them was politically correct. None was particularly photogenic and none were married to supermodels.

You are ”persactly” right there Dave..Although they all possessed the driving part, they were too ”rough around the edges, they actually called a spade a spade and then were willing to deal with the fallout if need be…That would be refreshing in today’s world where very few are willing to take responsibility for anything while being PC.

If you are nice be nice, if you are mean be mean, just be who the heck you are is all I was saying and I don’t care if you are married to the flagman.

I have seen PC drivers that also could not drive a nail, I would just as soon see a ”this is who I am driver” with a black eye if it were well deserved.

I guess I like ’em rough. I know I like ’em straight forward and honest.

Dave: My inabilities as a writer are becoming apparent, i believe. I bow to your judgement in that regards, as I know you were closely involved with Dale for an extended period of time.

My trying to use the word social skills and Dale Earnhardt in the same sentence may seem incorrect or revealing, as I surely lack some social skills of my own.

What I was referring to was the fact that on numerous occasions, perhaps in what might be considered his ‘later’ years, he was very aware of the plight of others, and in many PRIVATE moments would give greatly of his time and money. Stories that I witnessed about him buying tires for others, telling Ross to ‘put those tires on my tab’ at a number of tracks. He had hunting grounds near where I live and I would often run into folks at a small diner that I would stop at and they would tell of the time(s) that Dale would stop in and buy every ones dinner in the whole place, etc. Very private situations that he wished no one to know about were constantly being brought to light very quietly, as he did not seem to mind the term ‘Intimidator’ on the track, but off the track it did not seem to me to be his character.

Certainly agree with your assessment above. And, I, too, would much rather have a driver in the car with fire in his (her) belly.

I still enjoy knowing that both Dale (after being spun in LMS at Richmond & Martinsville by Sonny Hutchins) & DW (after being beaten in LMS at Nashville by Sonny and running 3rd to Ray Hendrick & Sonny in a 3 car LMS match race at Langley Field) told Sonny Hutchins of Richmond he was the “dirtiest” driver they ever raced and knowing that Sonny went up to Dale many years after his retirement at the Richmond track and asked Dale,“Who’s the dirtiest driver now?” They both got a huge laugh over that one!

Ok Tim–I guess im going to muddy the water here.

Bristol is not a big track–remember how it was getting around Columbia,or maybe Savannah,or even Mrytle Beach?? Things get tight and sometimes you bump someone accidentally or maybe on purpose to say I want by or maybe to ease the car out of the groove enough to let you by(now mind you ,you better be faster than whoever you just moved or retaliation is short coming). Is that what happened?? Or maybe it was an accident (maybe,maybe not) but it was Bristol and things get tight there,even in a truck.

Elliott can drive and drive dang good but so can Kyle–but Kyle is calculating his every move,Watch him as he sets up passes on the spur of the moment. He is up on the wheel from the word go whether its for 19th place or up front. Not many drivers out there today are up on their game like that lap after lap.

Watch when one is moving up to the front and he is picture perfect —-then oops he misses a mark and up the hill he goes or worse,the wall is there or another car. It happens every race,even his brother Kurt is not as dedicated as Kyle is. I was never in a group racing rather I was on my own when I left the home area and yes I got moved,spun out more times than I liked ,,but also I would try every means possible to get around a guy that was holding me up before moving him up the track—Its racing.

Now lets see how much I get pushed around here for my take on Kyle.

At least I dont think a trip to the Beach office will be called for unless someone catches someone out behind the car and wants to have a heart to heart talk real close up…!!

I appreciate all the responses to this thread. It was my intention to see the varying opinions of the true fans here at Racers Reunion and I certainly got those. As always, each and every opinion is respected and accepted, whether or not I agree. There are always issues and differences of opinions when folks get together and it seems the passion of race fans bring those issues and differences to red line limits. Passion is a good thing! Without it, there would be no reason to sing The National Anthem because it was the passion for freedom that birthed this U.S.A. It should be the passion for racing, and for your respective drivers and teams, that keep this site, and NASCAR going. Thank you all for your responses and have a great Labor Day Weekend.

Thanks for starting this thread Tim. It was enlightening and entertaining to see the different thoughts of our members on this subject.

I am not going to wave a flag for Kyle Bush. I just watched the Bristol deal on youtube. The problem is that Kyle did not know or realised what happened and or his spotter did not cool him off after the fact or Kyle did not cool off period.

That was a racing deal and not intential contact but as we have seen soo many times in recent years it is all about payback. NASCAR’s have at it mentality has watered the sport even more. Sure it is nothing new to see competitors get mad at eachother. The best in the business do not play this kind of game but again NASCARhas created a culture that nurtures unsportsmanlike conduct even among it’s top drivers.

Kyle Bush is a good driver, not a great one. The kid needs to grow up and act like a man instead of a punk rock star. He could nothold Petty’s, Pearson’s or Cale’s jackstand then, now or at any time.

Being the best is more than knowing how to drive a car it is what is inside. When the kid finally looks inside he will then now what it takes to be the best.