Hall of Shame

How many of you saw this piece of rubbish?

http://nascartalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/22/poll-of-nascar-garage-and-media-reveals-who-should-be-in-next-hall-of-fame-class/

Consider the list of candidates with my nominees in yellow and my "Doesn't belong on this list"s in red:

Buddy Baker

Red Byron

Richard Childress

Jerry Cook

Ray Evernham

Ray Fox

Rick Hendrick

Harry Hyde

Bobby Isaac

Alan Kulwicki

Terry Labonte

Mark Martin

Hershel McGriff

Raymond Parks

Benny Parsons

Larry Phillips

O. Bruton Smith

Mike Stefanik

Curtis Turner

Robert Yates

Now every person on this list is Hall of Fame worthy, but for a poll of the garage to churn up Rick Hendrick, Alan Kulwicki, Benny Parsons, Buddy Baker, and Curtis Turner (in that order) is just pathetic. Excuse me while I clean off my computer screen.That said, I have the highest respect for the accomplishments of all the gentlemen on this list, but I have problems with them going in now. What follows are my comments on the list.Buddy Baker- There was a reason he was known as "Leadfoot." Few drivers knew how to grenade an engine like the fabulous Baker boys! His career included several impressive wins, including three wins in World 600, a Southern 500, a Daytona 500, 3 Winston 500s, and even two short track wins all while running only four full schedules in his career.Red Byron- As the first champion of both the Cup and Modified circuits, little else need be said.Richard Childress- And after cleaning my computer screen, I must comment that I am 100% against active participants being enshrined in the Hall of Fame.Jerry Cook- People forget that in the until the age of television, the Modified tour was considered just as important as the Cup circuit. He and Richie Evans put together a string of 15 straight titles, with Jerry winning 6 of those, good for 3rd in series history. And Jerry needs to get in while he's still alive.Ray Evernham- After cleaning the computer a second time, what is he even doing on here when Jake Elder, Harry Hyde, Jeff Hammond, Travis Carter, and Smokey Yunick aren't in yet?Ray Fox- Ray was an incredible man, but I just don't think the time is right yet.Rick Hendrick- After cleaning the computer yet again, I will let it suffice to say (a) still active, and (b) the New England Patriots are a bunch of Mother Theresa's compared to Rick and his organization.Harry Hyde- Legendary crew chief. I know little about the man himself, but he helped establish several teams in the sport while given little to work with at many points. I peg him for the Hall class after this one.Bobby Isaac- When you dominate the short tracks into extinction (OK, it was Winston's doing, but I can imagine, right?), how can you not be in already?; The best short tracker of his generation, and he could even win on the big tracks to boot. Some try to discredit his title because of the King's injury, but then again what about the rest of the competition's failure to keep up with him on the bullrings for those years?Alan Kulwicki- I love Alan's story. I read the biography by Fr. Dan Grubba, and I have a diecast of his on my shelf. He amazingly put together being mechanic, owner, and driver to win what will be the last upset title in history. But he is not ready to be on the list yet in spite of his title and amazing qualifying performances.Terry Labonte- He just retired for crying out loud...Mark Martin- See my response to TerryHershel McGriff- I am no longer bothering to clean my screen anymore. I'd have Ray Elder, Jack McCoy, Eddie Gray, and Lloyd Dane in first. While Hershel won more races than many of them, I feel he gets too much credit due to his longevity.Raymond Parks- THIS was the man who built NASCAR. Without Raymond, Big Bill wouldn't have had the foundation on which to build his empire.Benny Parsons- He was legendary as a driver and an announcer. He won a title against the odds, and he won a spot in the heart of all he met. Oh, BTW, he won 21 races as well despite not having a top-flight ride until the 1980s.Larry Phillips- 2016, my friends. 2016. Because Larry needs to be there, but the guys I have marked are ahead of him at this point. King of the short tracks for two generations, and it would have been three had his health not gone downhill.O. Bruton Smith- My poor, poor computer. Does being a guy who owns lots of tracks (and intentionally ruins every last one) make you Hall worthy? Ruined Charlotte, Atlanta, and Bristol. Texas and Kentucky were ruined from construction (though Bruton bought Kentucky later). And he bought North Wilkesboro and Rockingham so he could shut them down. Joe Littlejohn and Sam Nunis would have something to say here.Mike Stefanik- He is Hall worthy, but he too shall wait a little while longer. Winning the KNPE and NWMT titles in the same season twice is quite impressive.Curtis Turner- While he is defined by many as the best racer they have ever seen (including Big Bill, Marvin Panch, and Johnny Allen), I think Curtis should be in the 2016 class (or whatever is two classes from now) because some guys who should have been in years ago STILL aren't in.Robert Yates- I leave this up to you because I only know Robert Yates as a car owner...Who do I think should be on the list right now instead? I'd displace the red for Ray Elder, Jim Paschal, Fonty Flock, Travis Carter, Bob Welborn, and Ralph Moody.
updated by @alex-fl-racing-fan: 12/05/16 04:00:58PM

Never an easy answer 2x per year. Once, when a new group of 5 nominees is announced. Second, when the chosen 5 are announced.

What I like generally is the passion with which folks who know and appreciate the past LOBBY for the past. Many believe the trailblazers of the 50s and 60s should be admitted to the hall before those who arrived in the 70s and 80s. Good argument to be made for that.

I also get the opinion by some that a balanced class is needed of those from the past and those a bit more contemporary. If all old guys are inducted, none will be able to deliver their own acceptance speech. If all "modern" folks are chosen, everyone will scream the voters have forgotten the past.

I also get the economics. The Hall has been a colossal failure from a business model perspective. Attendance hasn't even been close to what was pitched to the taxpayers. Winston Kelly & Co. desperately need folks coming through the turnstiles and corporate, catered events.

What is more likely to attract the casual and maybe even repeat visitors and events? Dale Earnhardt or Ralph? Rick Hendrick's cars or a Raymond Parks glass-encased exhibit? A feature on Benny having seen him on ESPN - or a nod to Byron from 60+ years ago? Not saying it's right - just saying I could understand how the economics of the hall could influence some of the votes.

I had strong feelings for who I wanted in those first few classes. Now, I just shrug and accept whoever they choose. One, all are deserving - just a matter of when they go in. Two, I can't do anything about it anyway. Ha. Hall apathy? Oh yeah. And I'm a racing lifer. Really doesn't bode well for Charlotte. Interest by residents & visitors is waning more and more with each passing day.

Having said that, give me these 5 for the next class to be inducted in January 2016.

• Raymond Parks - owner
• Jerry Cook - driver / modified champ
• Terry Labonte - driver / contemporary Cup champ
• Red Byron - driver / historical Cup champ
• Robert Yates - engine man with Holman Moody (60s), Junior Johnson (70s), DiGard (70s-80s) - incl Richard Petty's 200th win with Curb, and Ranier (80s). car owner with many signature wins and a championship.

As for who needs to be nominated, here are a few I'd like to see considered:

• Jim Paschal
• Jake Elder
• Clay Earles
• Enoch Stacy
• Paul Sawyer
• Jimmy Insolo

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Schaefer: It's not just for racing anymore.

I'll very definitely take exception to one of your "red" drivers. I'd take Hershel McGriff every time over most already in the Hall and most that have ever been nominated. He's an amazing talent who won in multiple decades for many decades, even after stepping back. Hershel is a true auto racing treasure who really kept left coast racing going. Gosh only knows what he'd have won in GN if he hadn't left Georgia and returned to Oregon.

And Jerry Cook was a STROKER (remember them) who ran many times a week accumulating points toward his championships and then became a NASCAR employee. I still say I'll consider it a HOF the day Ray Hendrick is inducted. He beat Jerry Cook, Richie Evans and Jack Ingram heads up so many times it would make your head spin.

It's a nice building with nice displays and a lousy list of inductees and nominees.

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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"

I went over last Sat. for my second visit and was disappointed in the number of patrons in the HOF. This is just an estimate but I would say there was less than 50 in there and 12 of them were from Racers Reunion.

I believe they should have 8 inductee's each year and break it down so we have 1 owner,1 crew chief, 2 driver's prior to 1960 and 4 drivers after 1960..

Those of us that are of an age that remember folk's like Paschal,McGriff,Hendrick,Fox and others like them are aware that the longer it goes with cramming in the modern stars simply causes the memories to fade . The younger generation doesn't know the stars we knew unless they are serious students of racing history like Alex and Cody to name a couple.

It is a serious problem that Nascar seems to be ignoring while they wait for a hand out from the local politicians.

Dave, you are correct, and I should be ashamed to have forgotten about Ray Hendrick. I am sure I missed many worth drivers, but I didn't go looking deep into things. This was just what I could write off the top of my head about folks. Among others I forgot Ray, Bugs Stevens, Red Farmer, Johnny Roberts, Rene Charland, and Mike Klapak... just to name a few.

Each and every one more worthy than many in the HOF and many who are nominated.

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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"

You nailed it, Bill.

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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"

While we're at it, there should also be a spot in the HOF for the longtime co-owner of most of Ray Hendrick's modified and Late Model Sportsman rides, as well as the engine builder, Jack Tant. Gosh only knows how many engines came out of Jack Tant Automotive for top drivers all over.

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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"

Red Farmer will always be my Hall of Fame driver. A Modified title in 1956 and 3 Sportsman titles from 1969 to 1971, along with the Permatex 300 in '71. If the "Iron Man" is in,(and as he should) so should Red!

Alex, I delayed commenting on this post until I had allowed myself time to reflect on what I once would have called "The Hall of Shame" had I been so eloquent in my choice of words. I was, once, the biggest opponent of the Hall of Fame around. Randy Myers invited me to meet him there and if I didn't like it, then he would buy my lunch. If I did like it, I would buy his lunch. Randy got a free lunch that day.

Although I still detest the way the inductees are selected and while I fully agree there are those already enshrined that should not have been for years to come, and although I agree Raymond Parks should have been one of the first to go in, I have learned to accept the Hall for more than a tribute to those whose pictures are so prominently displayed as being honored there. I have learned that there is a part of the Hall set aside to honor the history of the sport and does a pretty good job of it. There are displays and tributes to men such as Parks and Red Vogt and which call attention to the visitors that there were men in the early days that built the sport from the ground up. For that we can be proud.

I have also learned, some may say the hard way, that no matter how members are selected, or which members of the sport may be inducted in the years to come, there will be those of us unhappy about the selections. Interacting with the fans with whom I am privileged to meet, it is very obvious that favorites and opinions are as numerous and diverse as the fans themselves. This somehow, in my mind, reflects the diversity of the sport. Ah, thinking back over the years and the diversity of the friends I made through being a race fan, it was a good think to have those debates; Ford vs. Plymouth vs. Chevy vs.Pontiac, etc. Guess that contributed to my "wordiness" as I always had plenty to say about those Mopars.

Thanks for your contribution to the Forum and to the site. It is so great to have a young person with your drive and talent on the side of enhancing the history of the sport I care so much about.

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What a change! It's been awhile since I've checked in and I'm quite surprised. It may take me awhile to figure it our but first look it's really great.

IS THERE AN SCHOOL FIELD TRIPS PROGRAM OF BUSSING NORTH CAROLINA SCHOOL STUDENTS TO THE NASCAR HALL OF FAME ?

Dennis... that is an EXCELLENT question. According to the Hall's web site they do offer educational school visits:

http://www.nascarhall.com/tickets/field-trips

I must say, the pricing seems pretty outrageous.

I have two grandsons enrolled in local schools, one finishing 4th grade in Charlotte and one finishing 8th grade in Union County, NC. They have been on numerous school sponsored trips to many venues in Charlotte, but never to the NASCAR HOF. I'd say Charlotte city tourism leaders and HOF officials are really missing the boat here.

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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"

Vote for Raymond Parks while some of us who knew him are still alive. Without him there may have been no NASCAR.

I think Kulwicki should be in. I'd hate to see so much time go by that his accomplishments become forgotten because he didn't live long enough to build on them and receive the accolades he deserved. It's like Tim Richmond, Lord knows what he would had done with a longer career.

As far as Bruton Smith goes, I lean a bit towards in. While I agree, he didn't do some tracks any favors for the sake of Speedway Motorsports stock holders. He was there when they CREATED Charlotte Motor Speedway too. He did introduce to big-time stock-car racing innovations we now take for granted. He rolled the dice and risked a lot in hopes things like lighting a speedway, or building condos at a race track, could work.

Don't get me wrong, I agree there are those in "The Family" pushed some into the Hall too soon in order to relate the "newer" fans, and get them to go to the Hall. But that's there M.O. I think they have some questionable nominees in order to get the ones voted in that they want. Opening up to a fan vote helps that too. Those of us who recognize the real pioneers of NASCAR can't out vote the "fans" who can still spend the outrageous amounts of money "The Family" is sucking in. There are a lot of very, very good people in the sport's history that will be forgotten because they weren't NASCAR's people.

As long as I'm on this rant, I may as well express my disgust over the "carpet bombing" branding of NASCAR to get people to refer to NASCAR as the sport, instead of Stock Car Racing. They are but one (albeit the largest) part of that sport. I've raced more than a few stock cars, but the only time I raced anything close to a "NASCAR" is when our local track was sanctioned by them for a year. One year was all it took to find out that that association came with a high price. It ended up taking money OUT of the pockets of the racers. Not to mention insurance not as good as the track had on it's own.

My computer screen is an awful mess right now.

With no disrespect to any particular individual, it is my opinion that the bulk of the nominators and voters are unqualified for the assigned task.

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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"

Well it's the unwritten secret that Brian France tells the voters who he wants in before they vote. Anything in NASCAR.

Each year, all will have opinions as to to to who should be chosen. Big Bill = Big Power. Bill Jr. = Big Influence. Brian = Big Bureaucrat. I truly don't believe Brian can leverage anyone to do anything.

But...I do believe a large part of the voting bloc knows more about the contemporary era vs. the ones of 40-50-60 years ago.

• I'm cool with Terry - he's a 2x Cup champ. Damn tough to win 1 title much less 2. Deserved.
• Pops - I waffle on Curtis. His legend seems to be bigger than his record. But perhaps all the more reason to put him in the Hall of FAME. Plus, I think it's very relevant that he and Bruton are in the same class considering their dual efforts to build a Charlotte-area superspeedway in 1959-1960/
• Bruton - yes, he has squashed Curtis' lead in building CMS. But he did put his stones on the counter to form SMI and bring Wall Street's risk acceptance to his portfolio. Helped NASCAR leverage opportunities at Atlanta (barely), Vegas, wine country, Bristol's coliseum, DFW metroplex, etc. Did he do so at the expense of Wilkesboro, The Rock, and the Bahres in Loudon? Yes. But, attendance, ratings, sponsorship investment, etc. increased as a result of those brutally tough business decisions.
• Jerry Cook - An in-the-fairway choice.
• Isaac - An entrant that could easily be debated against Parsons' candidacy. But deserved nonetheless.

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Schaefer: It's not just for racing anymore.

Terry: I'm OK with him as the token modern driver

Curtis: I have read cases of 6 or 7 people saying Curtis was the best they ever saw, and multiple drivers who raced with him have told me the same.

Bruton: He helped the sport grow immensely in the 1990s (what he and Curtis did with Charlotte is overrated, IMO), but now in modern NASCAR those same things he did to increase the ratings are one of a laundry list of reasons why NASCAR has lost millions of fans in the last few years.

Jerry Cook: What bothers me is those who say the non-Cup drivers don't deserve to get in. Yes they do!

Isaac: Highly UNDERrated IMO. This is a good chance for the incredible things he did to finally get recognized.

I agree with Dave.

I still am a Raymond Parks supporter