Wanning attendance at races

Joseph Tilghman
@joseph-tilghman
12 years ago
17 posts

I was reading a story in The Wall Street Journal this morning concerning NASCARS tank going dry and the reduction in attendance at races.

Some of the facts I read was that Martinsville had removed some seating. Talledaga had 80,000 in attendence compared to 160,000 in 2000.

UPS, Home Depot and Dodge were pulling out and other sponsors were following as well as Mountain Dew was cutting back on juniors car.

The average fan was in his fifty's and lived 115 miles from the track and with the recession could not afford the gas to get there and the $80 admission.

The cars were homoginized and non descript and could not pass. I myself can only watch a bit of this nose to tail follow the leader racing.

I am not a Jimmy fan and I am sure he is a great driver but he has the personality of a frozen tuna. JMHO. He is stinking up the show right now and I'm sure people said that about Richard and Darrell and others when they won so many races.

After the first 10 cars there is very little competion and cubic inches cost cubic dollars which not many people have the cubic dollars these days. I have said it before when big money came into NASCAR that is when I feel racing started to decline.


updated by @joseph-tilghman: 12/05/16 04:00:58PM
Dave Fulton
@dave-fulton
12 years ago
9,137 posts

I read the article after your alert (thanks) and watched the accompanying video. Scary stuff. And you can't blame the fans tuning out the telecasts they once watched on the economy. When so many of us died in the wool fans such as congregate at this site are bored out of our minds with the current racing product, what chance is there to attract new fans?




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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"
david earnhardt
@david-earnhardt
12 years ago
112 posts

the new gerneration x fan base is not growing as well as nascar would like - but they could remove half the seating and still make train loads of money - just the money they fleece from parking in a weekend is over a million dollars - if you are a vendor every tray is counted and every dollar drained - these guys are all about the dollar - ive seen some of the new marketing packages for next year and nascar is going after their newer target audiences - more gimmicks and more showtime type entertainment - just wait till next year - it is only going to get more entertainment oriented - and nascar considers these good problems to have - i think the drivers are stoic also - but they are talented behind the wheel - watch them sign autographs they dont smile or even look at the person they are signing for and if the cameras arent rolling you may not even get one - buddy baker saw a big name driver tell a fan he didnt sign autographs - most of the drivers dont want to bother with fans and that is a fact - it is what it is and the show must go on .

Jeff Gilder
@jeff-gilder
12 years ago
1,783 posts

Sad...but very true




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Founder/Creator - RacersReunion®
Joseph Tilghman
@joseph-tilghman
12 years ago
17 posts

I saw that years ago at Rockingham I forget what driver won but fans were near the fence where they were doing post race inspection and the driver totally ignored everyone. But I saw lines a mile long for the King and he greeted and signed autographs for his fans.

The drivers are so vanilla these days they are boring I noticed they all hold the labels of their soft drinks so the camera can see them and take a swig for the sponsors.

I am so tired of the preshow lets go racing. I can say that i do not really have a favorite driver any more since Bill Elliot and I do not buy any race souveneers they are all making too much money for me to spend my hard earned dollar.

I still would rather see short track racing and stick to my local dirt track. It would be a good gesture if drivers paid down to some of the local short tracks and help some of these guys.

Dave Fulton
@dave-fulton
12 years ago
9,137 posts

No longer a factor... but back in the 1980s & 1990s, I used to hear Paul Sawyer at the Richmond track tell his sons Billy and Wayne that after his death if they ever charged a fan to park, he'd come back from the grave and haunt them. His premise was that when you bought a ticket to one of his races, you had the right to park on his grounds.




--
"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"
Jeff Gilder
@jeff-gilder
12 years ago
1,783 posts

" In a bid to grow roots beyond the South, Nascar a decade ago expanded aggressively, lengthening the season and opening new tracks. But no sooner did Nascar move races to California and Kansas than fan enthusiasm cooled, even at classic tracks such as Martinsville." you've heard a lot about this from that Goat Rodeo bunch.

There's a lot of truth in this article! How about the comment about the average fan....? "Nascar's average fan is a blue-collar white man around 50 years old who has been hurt disproportionately by the economic downturn. He can't easily afford the ticket, which hovers around $80 (down from $90) at ISC's 13 tracks. He can't afford the gas, since the average fan lives 115 miles from the nearest track."

The 18 to 24 year stuff is...as I have said many times (if I can toot toot my horn) absolute and total bull_ _ _ _ !!! This article spoke the truth. The average fan is not 18 to 24 years old. If the old folks cant' afford tickets, how the hell can the younger demo.?

Corporate America...(and NASCAR followed) created this fake demographic based on the belief that only young people could interact if today's gadgets. Well...what are you folks using right now.




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Founder/Creator - RacersReunion®
Joseph Tilghman
@joseph-tilghman
12 years ago
17 posts

I thought I was going to pluck a chord with my post, glad to see there are so many fans out there that feel the same way I do.

Dave commented on Paul Sawyer, he was a great promotor and always put on a great show in his 1/2 mile bull ring. I would make a weekend of it driving back and forth from Norfolk to Richmond to see practice and qualifying on Friday,late model race on Saturday and the Cup cars on Sunday andget in a Saturday night at Langley when they raced,

doug dellinger
@doug-dellinger
12 years ago
28 posts

Well stated Joseph!! A friend of mine, who drives a dirt late model at our local tracks, said he has stopped going to NASCAR races, due to the "follow the leader" racing (?). We were at a shopping center the other day and he pointed at the shopping carts lined up in the rack and he said "looks like a NASCAR race from lap 2 to lap 499". Long live the local short tracks!!!!

Joseph Tilghman
@joseph-tilghman
12 years ago
17 posts

We all need to support our local short tracks, they are dieing a slow death. I love the dirt cars I am an asphalt convert. There is a great track in Southampton Virginia that is just rotting away it was dirt and got paved. Both surfaces put on a great show but the promoter suffered a couple of seasons of bad weather and the car counts strarted going down and it just closed.

Everytime I go by the track I can't believe it the Sadler brother were supposed to buy it an open it back up but it fell through.

doug dellinger
@doug-dellinger
12 years ago
28 posts

That's a shame. But the sad part is, it's happening all across the country. My two local dirt tracks are still "kickin", Winchester, Va. and Hagerstown, Md.. Winchester is a 3/8 mi. and Hagerstown is a 1/2 mile track. Both have some "serious" short track racin' every Saturday night. (in season). Hopefully, the Sadler Bros. will still follow through.

Andy DeNardi
@andy-denardi
12 years ago
365 posts
These reasons and more have been mentioned over and over. But part of it is not NASCAR's fault, and that's the lack of interest in cars today. Not only will we lose NASCAR, but we'll soon lose personal transportation. With robotic vehicles somewhat perfected, we're headed toward the day when you get a subscription to a car service just like you pay your monthly cable bill. People haven't got the attention span for driving anymore. They'd rather fix their makeup or tweet their friends. Few can drive a standard or change a flat. Cities are overcrowded and are trying to find a way to reduce noise and traffic. With emerging holographic technology, you won't have to go down to Wal-Mart to see what something looks like before you buy it $20 cheaper online. Consider how your taxes will go up when the local police can't rely on tickets to generate revenue.After years of excitement, Detroit and the government turned the automobile into an appliance. Although today's compact car is faster than many muscle cars, and muscle cars have unprecedented horsepower, nobody really cares. Every car looks identical and has a cheesy rear wing.If you can't sustain interest in automobiles, you can't sustain auto racing. The emphasis on thrills and spills is because they can't promote epic battles between manufacturers anymore. With reliable engines, better tires, power steering and driver cooling, there's no attrition to make the outcome unpredictable.I've said it before, but a decade from now I expect that most racing will be done by people sitting in their living room participating in online competition. All you need is talent and cost is in the thousands instead of millions. No injuries, no repairs, no crew, no travel or real estate. Current online racing rigs can run into the multi-thousand dollar range. They tilt and swirl, vibrate and shake the steering wheel. The software incorporates realistic mathematical models to replicate track configurations and surfaces. The games incorporate the same fancy mathematics That a Sprint Cup race engineer pores over to determine shock and spring settings. Racing online is almost real, and many professional drivers use a simulator more often than an airline pilot.Stick & ball sports are popular because everyone has exposure to them when they're young. Most regions don't even have a decent go kart program. Unlike baseball, you can't compete at your local playground with $50 of equipment. Like larger forms of racing, it costs a couple hundred to get into karts and a couple thousand if you plan on winning.
Christopher Krul
@christopher-krul
12 years ago
119 posts

I want to weigh in on this. I will try to keep this short. Many reasons for the lack of draw to NASCAR. Economy is one of them. I think the drivers are more robotic and do not look like they are having fun. When the drivers are not as exciting or interesting it makes for some boring racing. I think alot has to do with the aero package the cars have. The cars have changed to the point where things like aero push and little stuff like that effect racing. Even the smallest body panel damage effects the handling. As a result we see less sheet metal swapped like in the old days. Not to mention got alot of young drivers who are now having to watch their Ps and Qs more then ever because NASCAR can change rules and fine you for just saying something they believe to be " to bedetrimental to stock car racing." I know I was critical of the Brad K interview in his delivery but if more drivers voiced their opinions like that I think it is good for the sport. That is how you gather fans by giving the drivers a voice. If you keep restricting it, how are you suppose to gauge personalities in NASCAR? When you got no interesting personalities why watch?

Competition I feel is lacking. I can remember growing up in the 90s you had some great personalities like Jarrett, Earnhardt, Elliot, Wallace, Martin, Irvan and alot of times you did not know who would win next week because it was that competitive. You had a wide variety of different winners every week. It kept you hooked. That is what got me hooked. Last week Jarrett got pushed by Earnhardt, will Jarrett pay him back? This week Elliott won and a bunch of Fords have already won in previous weeks, can the Chevys dominate again? Today you got a lack of competition and it is too predictable.

I think the track variety has hurt the racing too. When your schedule is made up of tracks that are a carbon copy of each other, how does that make it interesting? You take exciting tracks like North Wilkesboro and The Rock off the schedule and replace them with boring, bland and tracks that lack character. It does not present much of a challenge anymore. I think shortening races would be something to consider and perhaps have more short tracks and less intermediate tracks.

Yes it is bad how drivers do not sign like they used to or are not as personal as they used to be. Unfortunately I think the reason for this is because autographs have become big business for some people. At the end of the day is that person gonna hang that autograph up in his man cave for people to see or sell it on ebay? I used to go up to Daytona for testing and every year this woman came to the track with all these diecast cars. She would have bags and bags of them and make some kids get them signed. Just disgusting. You got this women pimping her kids and their friends to get autographs for her own selfish need. She was downright rude and would whine over how the driver would even sign things!!! I think perhaps some of the drivers are perhaps annoyed by this. But then you got some arrogant drivers too who will not sign. But for everyone of those there are some good ones. I think there are some very nice drivers out there who do take the time out. I can recall at testing alot of drivers would get done with their runs and between the time would sign. Marcos Ambrose while still talking to one of the mechanics out of no where and unexpectedly dropped by to say hi to me and sign my flag. Dale Jarrett was there from ESPN and signed for all the fans with a smile and with grace. He made conversation about his Dad and golf. Carl Edwards was the same too. Just as he was on TV. Made conversation with the fans. If enough of the drivers were good ambassadorsof the sport that would help too.

Overall. NASCAR is just lacking competition, character and fun. If NASCAR can work on encouraging that, I think the sport would be selling out again

Joseph Tilghman
@joseph-tilghman
12 years ago
17 posts

NASCAR should read these posts, there are fans of the sport here that are telling the truth about the sport.

Dave Fulton
@dave-fulton
12 years ago
9,137 posts

By golly, that's how it used to be done. Good ole days.




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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"
Dave Fulton
@dave-fulton
12 years ago
9,137 posts

Announcing the latest 5-Year Plan.... oops... wrong photo... that's not Z is it?




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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"
Dennis Andrews
@dennis-andrews
12 years ago
835 posts

No it;s obama

doug dellinger
@doug-dellinger
12 years ago
28 posts

One thing NASCAR should explore.....The season has road courses, short tracks, mile tracks, 1 1/2 mile tracks and the big tracks...BUT..NO DIRT TRACKS!!!! I know there is a special, non-schedule, dirt race for some of the drivers, but not a legit, part of the season, points race. Should be interesting, entertaining and would probably draw a great crowd. As they say: "Dirts for racing..Asphalt is just for getting there".

Andy DeNardi
@andy-denardi
12 years ago
365 posts

I agree with what you say, but I'm not sure that competition is worse. I haven't seen a direct comparison of the number of winners each season, but my impression is that there are more different ones now than there were in the Eighties. Remember, Chevy has won the manufacturer championship about 600 times. The Fords weren't doing well most of the time. And Dodge hasn't really been competitive since 1973. Toyota has done more with fewer cars. I don't think we've had more than four Dodge teams at one time since the comeback and they didn't do well until this year. Even then, Brad may be getting the championship but Chevy has the title.

I definitely agree that eBay has affected the drivers' attitude toward signing. Other celebrities also. But I think they drew the wrong conclusion. Yes, for a time, people will be making money from your autograph. But if you sign often enough, the value goes down and it's not going to pull good money on eBay. I guess they don't like the idea that their name is no longer worth anything. Petty has signed so many things that it has to be something really special to get more than $10. Drivers can also reduce the saleability of signed items by including the person's name or something specific about the encounter.

david earnhardt
@david-earnhardt
12 years ago
112 posts

i personally think the autograph thing is overated - there is a difference in signing a die cast and signing a autograph book or picture for a kid - the value is in proof - if your going to sell it you better have apicture of the driver signing that item - there are some creative forgers - i once saw a guy at a show who could duplicate dale sr autograph perfectly - only a real handwriting expert could tell the difference - so if you buy something without proof you dont know what your getting - having a personal item like a hat or shirt ,picture,autograph book or a race ticketis just that - personal - you the fan know its real so no proof is needed - these items shouldnt be sold ever - having something no one else has is cool - billy scotts wife barbara has the coup-de-grace - she has a autograph from dale sr signed - love dale earnhardt - no one else has one and i bet hers isnt for sale .

Dave Fulton
@dave-fulton
12 years ago
9,137 posts

Both Judy Tucker and Joe Whitlock produced numerous Dale "signatures" on glossy photos and driver hand out cards that looked very competent.




--
"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"
Joseph Tilghman
@joseph-tilghman
12 years ago
17 posts

Thank You Patty, I go ther and read your column after work.

Dave Fulton
@dave-fulton
12 years ago
9,137 posts

Didja hear a little Conway in yer head?!




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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"