Forum Activity for @frank-hager

NASCAR Rear Steer Rules

General

Bobby, I like the way you're thinking. Keep the other teams focused on the rear while the other "stuff" is what they should be looking for.

BUT, I have a comment about Johnson. I think he really is better than the other guys. The other that's close is Stewart. That off-road, Johnson, and dirt oval, Stewart, experience pays off.

Those off-road races are long and grueling events requiring a tremendous amount of driver concentration. Something that Johnson has, especially near the end of the race.

NASCAR Rear Steer Rules

General

Billy, The way I understand the rear end geometry with truck arms, the Panhard bar (track bar) only controls lateral movement. And it operates in an arc which will change the rear end position relative to the centerline of the car. The longer the Panhard bar, the less position change, the shorter will produce more movement.

Dirt and asphalt bar locations are usually different, and this might be what you did years ago. Usually the frame mount for asphalt will be on the right side. Pretty sure that's where it is on a CUP car with that sliding adjuster. The dirt crowd usually have the frame mount on the left side. There's a technical explanation for that which involves the rear roll center you mention, but all that "stuff" is over my head. I read about it and about 10% of it registered, the rest blew me away.

See ya' at the Charlotte Auto Fair? When ya' see my tenant Doug, come next door and pay a visit.

NASCAR Rear Steer Rules

General

Jeff, That's a question I can't answer. The voids in the Mustang bushings were about 1/4" and located at 3 and 9 o'clock when installed(remember, this is searching my memory from over 30 years ago).

Until just recently, I thought all front mounts onNASCAR truck arm suspension systems were done with a solid spherical bearing. I have a couple of sets in my shop I bought, on the cheap,at the racer auctions. Maybethey were cheap because they're obsolete!! But now with the mention of rubber bushings, I can see what I think they are doing

Now these NASCAR guys are pretty smart, so if they installed a bushing with a single void on the drivers side to the front and passcar side to the rear, you could get a significant amount of movement. AND, because the mounts are close together in front and the tires in the rear far apart, I think the total axle movement would be larger than the amount of movement at the void.

But, I can tell you that the voids in the Mustang bushing were small compared to those of a comfort cruiser. The more plush the comfort levels, the more rubber and voids used in the suspension bushings. Some cars had oval shaped bushings on the lower front control arms and others had a huge rubber donut front strut. The car company engineers would experiment with durometer changes in the rubber. I remember doing back to back rides in a Lincoln Town Car after changing justbody to frame bushings. BIG difference in comfort levels just by isolating the car body from the frame. AND they also have to accommodate extreme temperature changes from the frozen north to desert southwest.

High end luxury cars can easily have 1"+ momentary longitudinal compliance (movement) to help absorbthe shock of hitting a road obstacle. Todays low profile tires make the suspension components work even harder to absorb shock. With that in mind, the 1"+ might be conservative today.

I tend to get lengthy with a technical explanation, so I apologize for that.

Also notice the absence of ????????? marks in my response? None needed here, if you get my drift.

NASCAR Rear Steer Rules

General

Looks like my technical assesment of what the teams were doing was fairly accurate. From what I read the front trailing arm bushing will now be limited to allow 1/4" of wheelbase change at the rear axle. Policing the rubber compliance (hardness/softness), the placement of the voids in the bushings, etc. will be hard to police. Perhaps they plan to do it by bushing part #. The only way we could measuremovement when I did this work was to anchor the car and physically pull on the suspension components while the wheel/tires were suspended on floating air bearing plates. A time consuming, expensiveand complicated process I doubt NASCAR will tech cars to this extent, even at their Charlotte R&D facility.

Here's what I posted Aug 30th.

Reply by Frank Hager on August 30, 2012 at 8:39am Delete

updated by @frank-hager: 08/06/18 12:36:58AM

IF YOU THROW ANOTHER WATER BOTTLE IM GONNA GET MAD NOW

Current NASCAR

Still confused, but for right now, I'm outa' here.

IF YOU THROW ANOTHER WATER BOTTLE IM GONNA GET MAD NOW

Current NASCAR

I read whereNASCAR is checking to see if the aluminum debris found in turn onewas a Miller Lite beer can tossed out the window of the #22.

Mrs. Lilley,

I believe I made my points perfectly clear about water bottles. If not, I'll start allover again.

Please answer my question about computer etiquette. Don't think that's an unreasonable request because you brought the subject up. Otherwise the possibility exists that you'll forever be referring to me as Mr. Hager. Being an ex-school teacher, I know whenthe formal gender reference is normally used.

Mr. Hager

IF YOU THROW ANOTHER WATER BOTTLE IM GONNA GET MAD NOW

Current NASCAR

Now it's Mr. Hager ????????

Screamin' ????????? Don't have the slightest idea what you're talkin' about.

I might use ???????????????? toput emphasis on a subject,but I didn't use any CAPS. I always thought CAPS was computer lingo for raising ones voice.

So, Mrs. Lilley, if I'm in error of proper computer etiquette, I offer a humble apology.

With that being said. ?Question? for you and others here. What's the permitted number of ?? marksbefore I'm yellin' and screamin" at ya'll ? I want to make sure I don't offend anyone here and get my butt in a sling, or even worse, like kicked outa' here. I understand it's happened to others.

IF YOU THROW ANOTHER WATER BOTTLE IM GONNA GET MAD NOW

Current NASCAR

I said Gatorade bottle, not the news media or anyone here because it falls into the same category as a water bottle. Do ya' think all these bottles are empty?

Ya' think Carl Edwards is drinking H2O or VitaminWater (one of his sponsors) out there? Ya' think it might be colored, or is there a NASCAR rule for only clear colored fluids????

How about a section in the NASCAR rulebook to describe whattype containers, volume and type ofcontents are allowed and what direction they must be discarded in during a race. Oh yeah, how about a rule that they have a return deposit value to generate additional NASCAR revenue. (this is a joke ya'll).

Biodegradeable ??????????????? Why is that even worthy of mention. Don't think it's gonna' degrade and evaporateunder the NASCAR spotters careful watching eyes.

Glass Coke bottles????????? Where did that one come from? Ya' can't even have those by non-drivers in the grandstands.

Bottles under the pedals?????????? Ever hear of a drink holder?? Ya' see them in all the cars for insulated containers. How many in your street car?

Get a grasp on what the real issue here his. Changing the race outcome because of something tossed out on the race track.

PK, I didn't lose on nuttin' on this one. Wait and see if NASCAR makes a rule about what I'm sayin'. That's easier than NASCAR explaining during the race subjective judgement calls for cautions.

IF YOU THROW ANOTHER WATER BOTTLE IM GONNA GET MAD NOW

Current NASCAR

Back awhile ago Stewart got screwed outa' a sure win with a late race caution for a water bottle.

It's about time NASCAR put the end to this water bottle tossing. There's a big difference between a colored filledGatorade bottle and a helmet tear-off.

I put all this in the same category as the roll bar padding and driver glove cautions we had several years ago. All deliberate to cause a change in the outcome of a race.

What goes in the cockpit should stay in the cockpit. That includes Brad's cell phone he had in his drivers suit at Daytona andtraction control remote devices.

All this removes the sometimes questionable judgement calls by NASCAR race control.

It's a "No-Brainer".

PEACE PIPE SMOKED AT HOTLANTA

Current NASCAR

Where there's Smoke, there's fire.

Talk is cheap, let's see some action.