JUST WONDERING

Tim Leeming
@tim-leeming
13 years ago
3,119 posts

Team Orders? Several of the members here with deep NASCAR roots from the past tell us that team orders have always been prevalent in racing and thinking back over all the years, I remember very clearly how many times The King would have problems in the number 43 and one of the drivers in the 41 or 42 would suddenly need a relief driver. I remember very well, in the 1963 Southern 500, the 43 had problems, and Richard took over the 42 which then had problems so he took over the 41 which then had problems but by then the 43 was repaired and he was back in that car. At least those are my recollections. And someone brought up the white Chrysler fleet of the 50s and the infamous Keikheifer ruler. In one of my long conversations with Tim Flock several years ago, although I didn't realize it then, that is exactly what he was talking about. Then, more recently, there was the Paul Menard questionable spin at Richmond which enabled Kevin Harvick to win that race. More recently, the Trevor Bayne incident at Talladega. So, it goes without saying it has been happening forever.

After giving considerable thought to the matter (I am truly capable of that) I can fully accept "team orders" because, after all, a team by definition means to work together toward a common goal and that goal should be to achieve the very best results possible. So. I have no problems with "team orders" to achieve that goal. If Master Jack wants to order all four of his directly owned cars to run side by side at 55 mph to block the track, he can do that. Certainly that is a possibility at Martinsville although I hope I'm not giving the strawhat wizard any ideas.

As for Trevor, after giving that some deep thought as well, I still take exception to him telling Jeff he would go with him and then renegging on that deal when the flag fell, but as, I think Randy Myers said, Trevor did what he had to do with little time to actually think about it. I would expect Jack intercepted the transmission between Jeff and Trevor and "strong armed Trevor" (Trevor's words, not mine) into dropping Jeff. Trevor is a talent in development and a fine young man. I'm sure there aren't many of us who could, under the circumstance in which Trevor found himself, with less than 30 seconds for a decision, would have acted differently when your future was at stake. Trevor made the mistake of "tweeting" his true feelings but he had, in essence, already posted those feeling PRE-race on the Ford Race Page.

My problem now is handling the blatant cover up and lying going on by all the parties involved in the decision by the Ford group, Master Jack as head Guru. It was known, going in, that Ford was going to do whatever it could to insure a championship. No biggie. That's what they are there for. It's the bane of competitiveness. But the lying and "no, not me" attitude of those folks involved insults me, as a fan, that we are expected to believe this. Smoke and mirrors.You know, it seems to me the entire sport is getting that way. Everything is presented to the race fan as if we are senile, toothless old folks being fed their soft foods while staring blankly into space. NASCAR has been doing it for several years and getting away with it and now it is being picked up by the teams in the sport. Makes you wonder why you should believe any of the commercials for sponsors' products when we're being lied to at every opportunity. Just remember a couple famous quotes from history:

"The country needs to know their President is not a crook. I am not a crook" - Richard Nixon

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"- Bill Clinton

"The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself" - FDR

"History will not remember what is said here, but will long remember what they did here"- Abe Lincoln in The Gettysburg Address

" I'm from the government and I'm here to help you". Employees of government, any level, who show up when you have a problem.

"There were no teams orders"-Jack Rousch and/or a half dozen Ford execs as convenient.

Each of these quotes serves as a reminder that we live in a world concocted by the age of television, too much information, and an ever increasing lack of the ability to form our own opinions without the pressure of the media to influence those opinions in the mold the media wants us to believe. With the knowledge that NASCAR controls media access to what NASCAR wants them to know and report (that's a story for another time), we get only what we are believed by NASCAR to be intelligent enough to absorb. And remember, when it comes to we older folks, NASCAR believes our intelligence to be minimal. They also believe the gullability of the 18 to 36 demographic they seek to be wide open. Feed them like a pig and they will buy whatever.

Ok time to stop. I'm rambling now but I remain very adamant that there should be honor in the sport I love and it appears that has disappeared. Please don't lie to me NASCAR. As for you, Jack Rousch, just remain silent. You disgust me. As for team orders, guys, do what you want to. Rick, order Jeff to take out Duck Boy on the first lap at Martinsville. Richard, tell Clint to take out Kennseth on the third lap. Jack, as I said, just shut up.




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What a change! It's been awhile since I've checked in and I'm quite surprised. It may take me awhile to figure it our but first look it's really great.


updated by @tim-leeming: 12/05/16 04:02:07PM
Dave Fulton
@dave-fulton
13 years ago
9,137 posts
Honor among thieves.


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"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"
Bumpertag
@bumpertag
13 years ago
363 posts

The Legend has done it again. Bravo my friend, you have put into words and said just what needed to be said. I applaud you and encourage you to please keep stoking the fire and put words to what so many are feeling. Great job.

I havent been a fan nearly as long as so many here at Racers Reunion, but in my 34 years as a fan I havent noticed this issue being as blatant as in recent history. I remember well many of the efforts by drivers to do whatever was needed to allow for the best finish possible, but not the conspiring among teams or manufactures to affect the outcome of the race and a championship. I may be somewhat naive about the inner workings of multicar teams, but I am aware that manufactures have pushed teams to try to win the manufactures championship and Im fine with that. That is their job to represent their brand and repay them for the assistance they give to their teams. But to me, this issue has taken on a different, more sinister feel.

You said it best when you talked about the blatant cover up and the lying going on by those that claim they had nothing to do with it. It is obvious that there were team orders given in the days leading up to the race, the comments and articles referenced by many here attest to this. They cant be denied and the continuing efforts by FoMoCo and Jack Roush to do so only make my blood boil. If the Ford representatives and Roush are unable to stand up the criticism and heat from this situation and just say We did what we felt we needed to do, that is enough to let everyone know that it was wrong and they were aware it was wrong.

This is more than a driver doing something that was in HIS best interest. Dale Earnhardt throwing roll bar padding out, or Dale Jr or Buddy Baker purposely spinning to bring out a caution are things weve all witnessed. These examples were deceptive and were done to affect the outcome of the race by and for a single driver. They were viewed as wrong by NASCAR and the fans. Team orders, in my view, are much worst and this and is a path I dont want to see this sport go down. The perception of the sport will be forever changed if NASCAR doesnt step in and take steps to eliminate this ugly spectacle.

Dave Fulton
@dave-fulton
13 years ago
9,137 posts

Giving Secret Orders

Taking Care of Business - NOT

3 Strikes - You're Out

New Team Orders: "Stay off those pink curbs, boys"


--
"Any Day is Good for Stock Car Racing"
Johnny Mallonee
@johnny-mallonee
13 years ago
3,259 posts
And Robbie you are saying you are open to helping------- W H O ???
Richard Guido
@richard-guido
13 years ago
238 posts

What happened on the last pit stop for Mario Andretti and Fred Lorenzen in the 1967 Daytona 500 ?

What was happening between Doniie, Bobby and Cale during the 1979 Daytona 500.

How many Championships have Jeff Gordon and Jimmy Johnson won ?

What did Chad say to Jimmy before the start of last weeks races at Talladega ?

Tommie  Clinard
@tommie-clinard
13 years ago
209 posts

It was best said on SPEED last night by Kyle Petty and Jeff Hammond. This issue would not even be discussed if it were not for the radio communication by drivers and their teams with the whole world listening in. This TEAM Racing has been going on since owners had more than one car in the race along with the manufacturer having a say so. So this is not a Johnny Come Lately issue.

In support of Trevor Bayne I can only say that this young man is only 20 years old. He won the Daytona 500 with the help of Jeff Gordon simply because no other Hendrick car needed his assistance. So Trevor I'm sure was thinking I'll run with Jeff because of our being able to run up front with maybe a chance to win as we did at Daytona. None of the Ford teams needed him as a drafting partner at that time. He could draft past Gordon on the last lap and win the race.

So then Matt Kenseth who has a chance at the Cup Title wound up without a drafting partner so Trevor did what he should do per team instructions, help your fellow Ford driver's.So he left Jeff G. for Matt. If Jimmy J. had needed help from Jeff G. then I'm sure the story would still be the same but with different drivers in different roles.

The only fault that I can find is Trevor saying without thinking (20 years old in the heat ofbattle) that he would run with Jeff to the end of the race.

I applaude him for his team loyalty and agree with his statement made on Twitter. I wish that racing didn't have to be this way and I hate that it is. But it is what it is.

So you go young man. FORD also.

I will admit that I am a FORD man. In my 21 years of racing I only raced one other brand and that was way back in 1957 when I drove a Willy's coupe with a Kiaser engine in it in the NASCAR Amateur Div. I got my first win in that car. The rest of the time it was FORD.

But I have to pull for a Dodge and Brad K. to win the Cup Title this year. Sorry about that Ford. I just like Brad's style. He is a racer.