More Nascar Trivia

When and where did Bill France mandate that every engine had to run an identical restrictor plate.

updated by @dennis-andrews: 12/05/16 04:10:12PM

Wow, Dennis, you must have stumbled into a NASCAR history book somewhere!!! You know, there was a time when facts like this stuck in my mind and it would take me merely a nano-second to call it up. But, frankly, in spite of four cups of coffee this morning, my brain still won't pull it up. Keep posting my friend! You make us old guys put on our thinking caps or at least starting looking for the NASCAR history books. See, I'm not even computer savy enough to look that up on Google, but please don't tell anyone that!!!!Hope to see you soon.Tim


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What a change! It's been awhile since I've checked in and I'm quite surprised. It may take me awhile to figure it our but first look it's really great.

the first plate restriction was in 1970 when anything bigger than 358 cu.inches were required to use the plate.
In 1987 when Bobby Allison made a Buick fly backwards everybody got a plate to slow all the cars down.
there might be more defining reasons but thats what I remember.Ask Tim for a more precise time and definition because that gentleman has forgot more than most of us will ever know

And who won that Yankee 400 in 1970 at Michigan? Charlie Glotzbach in the #99 Ray Nichols Dodge. He also won the pole for that race. Wonder if the development of the restrictor plate by Goldsmith and Nichols had anything to do with their dominating that day.


Pkl said:

Tricky question Dennis, but I think I can answer it. The first race that required restrictor plates was the 1970 Yankee 400 at Michigan International Speedway. Before that race, the tires were tested at Talladega that year by Paul Goldsmith and Ray Nichels, working in concert with Goodyear. Those much hated plates were actually designed by Goldsmith.

Information is from a book by Peter Golenbach... "Stories of the Men and Women Who Made Stock Car Racing." I've read much of what Golenbach has written, and I've yet to catch him out doing anything wrong. I regret that I have not read this particular book, but I think that will soon be remedied.

Link to the page with that info from Google Books:

http://tinyurl.com/26vrfj5

(Yes Tim, I do know how to work the Internet pretty well...and I'm more stubborn than a bulldog.)

O.K. Folks, I'm enjoying this. You guys know your racing history or remember it as the case may be.There seems to be conflicting accounts of when the plate was first mandated. We have documentation of it being August 16,1970 at the Yankee 400 at MIS won from the pole by Charlie Glotzbach as PattyKay and Pete have noted.The book by Steve Lehto "Bobby Isaac-What Speed Looks Like" states that it was the next week at The Talladega 500 that France mandated that every car running in NASCAR would have an identical plate placed between its carburetor and intake manifold. The plates would all have holes cut in them the same size. Each car on the track, regardless of engine size or configuration, was taking in the same amount of air and fuel.Pete Hamilton won the race completing the sweep of the Grand National events held at Talladega in 1970.I was at Talladega in 1970 with Dad for the Bama 200 Grand American race and can honestly say that I do not remember anything about restrictor plates. I do remember that Dad was upset because he had dropped another valve during the race. They got most of their engine parts from Bud Moore and were experiencing the same valve problems that Bud was having in Grand National series. Later in reading a book on Bud Moore I learned that he eventually figured out that the problem was heat but that didn't help us in 1970.The other thing that I remember about that trip was it was the first time that I saw in person the winged cars on the track. When we exited the tunnel and entered the infield I looked back and saw a group of 6 or 8 Dodge Daytonas and Plymouth Superbirds on the banking between 3 and 4. WOW what a sight. I had seen the street versions and frankly was not that impressed but seeing them as they were designed to be was impressive. One of those things that you never forget.Anyway, Michigan or Talladega? What do you all think? Either way 1970 was a year of a lot of first. Hey maybe that would be fun, listing all the things that happened for the first time that year.

Dennis, I'm enjoying this discussion too. I was at the 1970 Yankee 400 at Michigan and I also found an article from a old MIS racing program about the race. The qualifying speeds were off by about 5 mph and 1.2 seconds per lap from previous races at MIS. There was a carb restrictor plate mandated and the man who came up with the idea Paul Goldsmith was the crew chief on Charlie's car that day. It was basically a 2 car race between Cale Yarborough (Wood Bros. Mercury) and Glotzbach's Dodge Daytona. Cale blew an engine at the end and the race finished under caution. According to Joe Frasson, the top teams were able to make the equipment change but he had to dig deep down in his pocket at a cost of about $600 to make the change. The independents were really hurt by the plate and Frasson said Nascar was up to their old tricks of stepping on the independents.Also for this race, Nascar mandated the drivers side window be protected by window netting for the first time.

Pete, The window nets were one of the things that I had in mind when I thought of the things that first appeared in 1970. They were the result of Petty's crash at Darlington that same year. I read that he had crashed the Superbird and could not get it ready in time to qualify so he ran the plain Road Runner instead and it did not handle as well as the Superbird at the speeds that they were running. As most have seen the video of the crash it mush have been terrifying to watch in person because I read that Ralph Moody commented when he saw the wreck that he was thinking what in the world are we going to do without Richard.
Pete Banchoff said:

Dennis, I'm enjoying this discussion too. I was at the 1970 Yankee 400 at Michigan and I also found an article from a old MIS racing program about the race. The qualifying speeds were off by about 5 mph and 1.2 seconds per lap from previous races at MIS. There was a carb restrictor plate mandated and the man who came up with the idea Paul Goldsmith was the crew chief on Charlie's car that day. It was basically a 2 car race between Cale Yarborough (Wood Bros. Mercury) and Glotzbach's Dodge Daytona. Cale blew an engine at the end and the race finished under caution. According to Joe Frasson, the top teams were able to make the equipment change but he had to dig deep down in his pocket at a cost of about $600 to make the change. The independents were really hurt by the plate and Frasson said Nascar was up to their old tricks of stepping on the independents.
Also for this race, Nascar mandated the drivers side window be protected by window netting for the first time.

Here is one for all of the conspiracy theory persons. Dennis, your key word here is identical. Just becuase they are all alike doesn't mean they are all the same. Hummmmmmm...................

In the Epilogue of the book "Bobby Isaac - What Speed Looks Like" by Steve Lehto it states plainly that the first race that a restrictor plate was mandated was at Michigan in 1970. This agrees with info. posted by PattyKay.
This would have been the Yankee 400 since it was the race just before the Talladega 500 in Aug. of 1970. Just as Pete said.
I have reread the chapter in the book where it talked about the first mandated restrictor plate race and have come to the conclusion that while the information was included in the section about the Aug. 1970 Talladega 500 it must have been stating that it was the first race at Talladega for the plate. The previous paragraph talked about the race at MIS and made no statement on the restrictor plate. When the next paragraph recorded the Talladega 500 and talked about the first use of the plate then I assumed that it was the first time at any track. Now we all know what assuming does but this time it did it to just me.

Dennis, it seemed to me the use of the plates and window nets at Michigan was a race track test to see how it would work at Talledega. There was NO need to put the restrictor plates on at the Yankee 400 except to see how they would perform on a superspeedway. The qualifying speeds at the time at MIS were 162.7 during the June 1970 race with the pole won by Pete Hamilton in a Petty Superbird #40. The 1969 races at MIS were pole speeds of 160.1 by Donnie Allison and 161.7 by David Pearson, hardly a huge jump in speeds and no races had tire problems. The Dodge Daytona and Plymouth Superbirds were raced for the first time at Michigan in 1970. Charlie Glotzbach's qualifying speed in the August 1970 race at MIS was 157.3.The Glotzbach and Cale Yarborough 2 car battle was anticlimactic because the only caution that flew that day was for Cales blown engine on lap 188 and the next 9 laps were run under caution. Cale finished 10th that day, 9 laps down, with 23 cars out of 40 running at the end. It was one of the most boring races I'd ever seen. Only 2 cars finished on the lead lap, Charlie and Bobby Allison.Pete

I don't know if the plates were issued and then retrieved by NASCAR or issued and then checked. It would be hard to say that they were all identical because of machining tolerances and the checking procedure was a no go gauge I think.

N.B. Arnold said:

Here is one for all of the conspiracy theory persons. Dennis, your key word here is identical. Just becuase they are all alike doesn't mean they are all the same. Hummmmmmm...................