So, When Does History Begin?

There was a brief discussion on the radio show, Racing Through History, Tuesday evening about whether or not to extend the period of time for which content is allowed on RacersReunion. Currently, the "cut off" year is 2003, the end of the Winston Cup era. Jeff thought maybe going through 2005 would be a better period. A short discussion ensued on the chat with some strongly opinionated one way or the other. I didn't really express an opinion (imagine that) during that discussion.

After "sleeping on it" as they say, and thinking about it over coffee this morning, I am ready to state my opinion, as follows:

I think it is incumbent upon RacersReunion to remain true to the purposes for which it was established and I think it has done a really good job of that. At the same time I am aware that actually yesterday is history. There is a section in Forum comments that is headed "Current NASCAR" but I don't think many folks actually look for the options when posting in the Forum. My opinion of that is as long as you are posting, go for it. The category under which something is posted does not determine whether or not I read and/or comment.

Last night Jeff indicated a future upgrade to the hosting site of RacersReunion which would allow for distinct divisions within the Stock Car Racing portion of the site. The suggestion was made that perhaps "Modern NASCAR" could be set up as a distinct section. I do like that idea. I don't think we need to convert to a format like thousand of other sites covering present day NASCAR, some no more than bully pulpits for self-indulgent know-it-alls and "great pretenders". I do think, however, to overlook "historic accomplishments" such as the winning of the Nationwide Championship by Chase Elliott, or the selection of Rex White into the NASCAR Hall of Fame the same year that car number 4 wins the Cup for the first time since Rex did it in that number in 1960 is overlooking something we should be telling to the world.

I know the devil is in the details in working this out, so our best option, in my opinion, is to include all things in current NASCAR in a separate "Current NASCAR" section when that category can be added to the site. After all, yesterday is History already.

I agree with Tim, I come to this site for racing history , there are other sites for NASCAR today. I'm just lost in the 50's and 60's !

As you noted Tim, history is created with each passing moment. I think it is different, however, to have info "historically relevant". I think the premise of this site is to focus more on the "historically relevant" racing of decades past vs. the history of last week's race.

To borrow a phrase from economics, it's also a case of supply & demand. The web and TV has ample supply of contemporary racing history. What it often does NOT supply is info about racing in the far past. That is where sites like RR excel - supply info from those eras to meet the demand of those who want to learn about it.

Having said that, racing history does continue to accumulate. A few weeks ago, Eric Cardona shared a picture of many of his ticket stubs. I suggested he scan and share them individually because his present is tomorrow's history.

http://stockcar.racersreunion.com/forum/topics/my-ticket-collection

I think a pretty good balance takes place here between truly historical racing and contemporary racing. I may chime in a time or two about a story of today, but I generally save that for other sites, Twitter, personal email exchanges, texts, etc. For me, the jewel of this place is to share info about racing from the 1940s thru the 1970s or so and learn from others - especially those who were neck-deep in it.

History is indeed being made every day every where we look. There are indeed too many websites out there that do nothing but serve the modern or casual fan. Little is done to support the diehard or long time fans. This site is the only website that supports the old-timers. No joke. There is no other resource for people like Tim Leeming, Dennis Satorius (sorry if I butchered the spelling), or Jimmy Johnson (the real JJ!!) to share their stories and the pictures that corroborate them. The same is true for the Drag Racers. USAC, for all their divisions (Stock car, Midget, Champ Car, Sprint, Road racing, etc.) has to rely on a few small, very small, Facebook groups. It's a tragedy in our midst. Something must be done.

I may not have commented on the argument of how old to make the cut off, but I hope this sheds some light on how to approach the debate. I just don't want to see this site get over fun with modern "fahns" and their pictures of Kardboard Kutout Kasey Kahne.

My only hope is that this site never shuts down. This site is the only place where I can read articles and see pictures the racing that I love and long for.

Billy, I was sitting down when I read your post, but it still floors me. It hurts me that someone can claim to be a fan and not know anything about the history.

My crusade for the history of the sport actually began in 1993 or '94, not sure which year it was, when I was standing in line to pick up my press credentials at Darlington. At the time, the credentials were picked up across the street from the track in the small building that allowed like may 3 people in at the same time. I was in line with a woman from ABC television and while I had let her ahead of me, she was stuck in her own world of self importance. The security guy was letting in a person everytime one vacated the building. The "lady" and I would have been next when this guy walked up, opened the door and started to enter the building. This woman goes off on a wild cursing spree (we have been in line for like 30 minutes) and the guy apologize profusely not realizing he was breaking in line. I reached for the door handle, pulled opened the door and said to the guy "the three time winner of the Southern 500 can go before me anything". The woman stopped in mid sentence and stood there looking at him and me like we fell off the turnip truck. The gentleman let her go ahead as he and I stood there an talked while waiting our turn. As the lady was coming out of the building I stopped her to say "I would like you to meet Buck Baker who has won this race three times". She said "hi" and walked briskly away.

Since that day, I have encountered younger race fans who are clueless about the history of NASCAR racing. I don't condemn them, only wish they would bother to learn. I bothers me a lot when you mention Fireball Roberts and the guy you're talking with doesn't know him. I guess the biggest recent example of such attitudes was when we had the young man on the radio show a few months back who lives in Chicago. He claims to be a huge race fan and had headed up the effort to have Josh Wise win the fan vote for the Sprint Race in Charlotte. I asked him something about Fred Lorenzen and he didn't know who I was talking about. And the kid lives in Chicago.

Everytime I am fortunate enough to be around the pioneers of the sport, you included Billy B., I am always somewhat in awe of what you guys did. Without the Billy Biscoes, Jabe Thomases, Cecil Gordons and so many now being swept under the rug, there would be no Sprint Cup, no million dollar motor homes, no Lear Jets. I can't even begin to express what the history of this sport means to me!

Thank you, Billy, for relaying the story. If I thought that young man you mention could be educated I would ask where I could find him and head that way today. But, as you point out, he isn't interested. More the pity.

History is history, but I'm not interested in the modern era. I understand the role of racersreunion.com, but I'm stuck in the '50'; maybe some of the '60's.

Tim, Thanks for giving us regular RR members an opportunity to give our thoughts on this. I'm glad it is not something I have to decide on myself. I'm thankful we have a place like RR to come and learn aboutand share racing history. Without a place like RR where the info. can be easily shared and stored a lot of it would be lost. The history of stock car racing is what brought me to this site and not just Nascar racing history. I enjoy both. I have made many friends because of RR that I might not have met otherwise. For me when it comes to Nascar history the 90's are current but opening it up to 2003 did not take away from my enjoyment of the site because that era has not dominated the discussions. I have more in common with the "old timers" than with current Nascar and if the site were to become dominated by new Nascar stuff I would loose interest in a hurry. I like the idea of a current Nascar section. That gives me the choice of what era I want to focus on.

With every passing day history becomes a longer story. We live in the present, as it should be, so when we look back it is very helpful to be able to look in the era we are looking for so we will not miss the present while looking back.

How about a cutoff at 2000 and then have (or keep) a 20 year deadline? Or, even keep it at 25 years.

Well since us OLD folks are relating to when the light changed colors so to say I personally think it happened the day the last dirt race was run in Nascar for what some now call Sprint Cup.

The era that started in the late 40s and continued into the early 70s was some of the best racing that could ever be seen or in some cases filmed. Although Tim was a late bloomer behind the wheel of a racecar he was fed a steady diet of dust, fumes, and tire smoke and yeah he got pretty high on all that while being guided by that certain man who also loved racing.

Also Think about this, Jeff Gilder probably would not have started Racers Reunion if it wasnt for a certain older racer in his life. Stop and just listen to Jim Streeter talk of the good ole days, thats history or Bill Blair, you know he had a mentor also.

Yes old folks need a place in racings history so where would you start or better yet where would you cut it off. Some say the light flickered in Feb 2001 but maybe a flame brightened that same year in July.

The Car Of Tin (car of tomorrow) as some call it changed the playing field... No where can a car win on Sunday be bought in the dealership on Monday... That is the straw that broke the true racings back.

My dad if he were alive today would be on here from daylite till dark telling of the good ole days . He so loved racing.

So Tune our site as best as you can o great Goat herder and more than likely most if not all will be here till the end...